Ok. So I posted the following reply on EMK's blog post re: Is Sex on the Third Date the New Normal? and, as always, left out some thoughts...
I'm going add in RED below what I left out...
KARMIC EQUATION #195
We’re actually not as far apart as first thought.
I agree with you that the GOAL of dating is to obtain the
relationship you’re looking for (marriage, other LTR, fling,
whatever)…But I still think that the APPROACH to dating is to make a
friend — not to actually KEEP the person as a friend, BTW, unless you
It’s always a lot easier for me to get my point across with an example, so please bear with me while I try to explain…
I was a late bloomer, didn’t have my first “real” kiss until I was
18; no dates (and virginal) until 19, which is ancient by today’s
standards! I remember after I started dating but before I lost my
virginity…every date I went on, I was thinking is this the guy, will I
someday have sex with this one, how will it feel, is tonight the night,
etc. Basically because I was so obsessed with my virginity and when I
would lose it that I did not pay attention to my date as a person (compare my need then to find the right sex partner to your need now to find right marriage partner - very similar IMHO) -- and thus I treated the
date as something spectacular that my life could hinge on -- instead of something more normal, like figuring out. Did I
like him? Was he fun to be around? Was he a gentleman? I was so in my
own head, I didn’t have time to really get to know if the guy I was on a
date with was a good person, e.g., someone who had the qualities to be a good
friend…because I think we can agree that the person we end up married to
should be a good friend to us and a good person in general.
AFTER I lost my viriginity, I paid attention to my dates the right
way. I dated men and talked to them like my friend (not close friend,
but friend) — I asked questions (not where do you live, what do you do,
etc.) but things like, What did you do today? Did you have fun doing
that? What did you find the most fun? Was that stressful, etc…And in
doing that, I got to know my date as a person. This is what I meant by
approaching dating to make a friend. Not to actually make a friend, but
to make sure that there is no strange agenda in the back of your mind to
keep you from seeing your date for who he is, which allows you to more
clearly assess how *you* feel about the date and the guy. And you take the pressure off the date and yourself. There is no pressure if you're just trying to decide if this guy makes a good friend...but wow MEGAPRESSURE if you're trying to figure out if the guy is fit to be your "partner." That internal pressure is going to affect your behavior. Count on that. And really, the first few dates should be finding out the good qualities in the guy, not whether he's ready for an minivan in the 'burbs.
If there is attraction, then there would be flirtation…it’s natural.
The conversations get slightly more personal (in a good way), in
addition to the friendship questions/conversation. If there is no
attraction then no flirtation. And as women and great conversationalists
that we are, we can steer the no attraction conversations such that we
know that they won’t ask for a 2nd date. If we like the guy, we keep it
friendly and flirtatious (in a good way)…and hope our conversation and
what we shared and how we shared it in that conversation would elicit a
another date. Then each date we show more of who we are and get the guy
to be more of who he is…and you go from their to your relationshp GOALS.
Sorry for the long post. I don’t know how to get this nuance across any other way.